Ukrainian Ambassador to Illner – weapons training via YouTube – politics
Chancellor at war! Scholz talks about heavy weapons, but also about the long-awaited status of an EU candidate country for a battered country. Maybrit Illner asks: “Traveling to Kiev – warm words or real help?”
Guests
Ralf Stegner (62, SPD). A party member warned this afternoon on BILD television: “Putin must not pass, Ukraine must not have a dictated peace.”
Roderich Kiesewetter (58, CDU). At the same time, the defense politician and former colonel hoped on WELT TV that the three heavyweights of the EU, Scholz, Macron and Draghi, “are not interested in the ceasefire line, which the Russians would then bury”.
Andrij Melnyk (46). The Ukrainian ambassador became unpopular as a reminder, but won: “Ukraine will win this war.”
Katja Gloger (62). The author of the book and an expert on Russia tweeted at the beginning of the war: “No monuments will be built to Putin.”
Anne Gellinek (60). The ZDF correspondent is attached from Brussels.
Proven opinion experts in a clear and truthful manner. Zoff-o-Meter is not in the mood for academic ricochet today!
The strongest statements
“An important visit for Ukraine,” said Ambassador Melnyk, “but hopefully also for the Federal Chancellor, because he was able to see for himself how desperate the situation is. Accordingly, we hope that the Chancellor has also acquired a sense of urgency.
According to Melnyk, support for his country gives EU candidate status “a little hope that the Chancellor will reach the unanimity needed in Brussels in the coming days. We are not beyond the mountain yet. “
Different ratings
Stegner sees the path as a “strong European signal”. The SPD MP answered Illner’s title question “warm words or real help” with the teasing “both!”
“A very strong sign,” Kiesewetter said, adding that the three founding members of the EU had traveled to Kiev. The difference: “Macron has made it very clear that Ukraine must win and that arms supplies must be rapid. Germany is a country that announces a lot and does a lot of late. ”Boom!
the most legitimate claim
Then the edge of the CDU politician knocked across the table: “We still don’t deliver what we could deliver directly, such as ‘Marten’ or ‘Leopard’. Four “Mars” launchers have been reduced to three, “he criticizes. “Well, I wish there was something more specific.”
The most satisfied comments
“Today is a good day,” says Gloger happily, as: “Ukraine has a European perspective. Putin cannot interpret this other than as a great political defeat.
“Liberation,” agrees ZDF correspondent Gellinek. “The next step is accession negotiations.” According to her, however, “it doesn’t really mean anything, we’re talking about a decade” before Ukraine will actually be a member of the EU. Ugh!
The most realistic picture of the situation
“Accession to the EU is not a gift to Ukraine,” the ambassador emphasizes, “but something that is also in the Federal Republic’s own interest. No other country has benefited more from the EU’s expansion to the east, both economically and politically.
Stegner tilts his head, but Melnyk increases his successful pressure to be even more annoying: “We don’t want to be petitioners. We have shown that we are able to defend not only ourselves but also other partners, the topic of NATO! The point is that the Germans put their money where their mouths are. ”
The clearest urgent request
For Ukraine, the visit is an “honor” and “definitely a strong message,” the ambassador praised, “We need years to work our way through the accession chapters, but now we have to survive!”
Kiesewetter hits the nail on the head: “We are the country in Europe that has the largest reserves of battle tanks and armored personnel carriers,” says a CDU politician. “We have the opportunity from the industry to supply 100 Panzerhaubitz 2000, over 30 ‘Marder’, over 30 ‘Leoparden’, but the Chancellery has not given its consent.”
Then the Zoff-o-Meter starts: Stegner listened with growing impatience. He is now outraged by the suspicion of duplication in the Chancellery, first voiced by opposition leader Friedrich Merz in early June:
His opposition: “It is very easy to give wild conversations. The claim that Germany is on the brakes is wrong.
The most heartfelt click
The moderator of the talk show immediately shows the numbers: Poland sent 230 T-72 tanks to Ukraine. Czech Republic 61 infantry fighting vehicles. France 12 howitzers “Caesar”. Little Estonia has provided € 220 million in military aid. The US has delivered weapons worth 4.4 billion euros. Illner’s pointed question, “Do you still think we did everything?”
Stegners saves himself with a tactical evasive maneuver: “I think if we don’t narrow it down to a military issue, we will support Ukraine as best we can,” he replies, “and I personally think that narrowing it down to a military issue is wrong.” Yuck!
The smartest counterattack
Kiesewetter quickly followed suit: “The industry would be willing to supply more than 50 ‘Leopards’ and Marders in April,” a colleague from the SPD said. “It would also be willing to deliver around 100 Panzerhaubitzen 2000. That was not done.”
Stegner’s defiant answer: “You know, the industry in Germany doesn’t decide that.” Uiuiui …
The most important announcement
“That is why we will deal with it next week,” says the CDU man, who did not allow himself to be discouraged, “and we will try to make it clear in the debate and with the application that Germany can do more. And we stand behind the government. “
The ZDF correspondent provides a “small view from the European engine room”: Of course, in Brussels “it is already perceived that the German government is making statements, but then these statements are almost always lagging behind,” he said.
ZDF correspondent Anne Gellinek has a connection from BrusselsPhoto: ZDF
The ambassador put it briefly: “To date, not a single heavy weapon from Germany has been used in Ukraine,” he complains. groan!
Emotionalster Appell
Melnyk is very well informed about the Bundeswehr’s sources: “We know that Germany has over 800 ‘Fuchs’ armored personnel carriers, or 300 ‘Leopard 2’ and 300 ‘Marder’,” he says, adding: “It’s about speed! It costs a lot of lives every day! “
It’s not just a fight against murderous Russian artillery: “We know that these weapons can enable us to liberate areas that have been occupied for more than a hundred days,” explains the ambassador – areas where murder, rape and violence took place. bound to this day is deported.
Stegner is looking for salvation by changing his position: “Now I’m getting to know a lot of new military experts who can talk about all kinds of weapon systems,” he says. “I can’t do that.”
But: “We are also talking about human lives, which is why it is absolutely right to call Mr Putin to prevent famine!”
The clearest findings
“If Putin says that he is in fact Peter the Great, then he makes it clear that he will not stop in Ukraine,” the talk show moderator fears.
“In fact, he belongs to The Hague before the war crimes tribunal,” Stegner said without guilt.
Bad strategies
Gloger reports from the occupied southern Ukraine: “Every child born there automatically receives Russian citizenship. They only call there with Russian mobile operators. Putin is creating all the conditions for him to join the region in Russia.
“Destruction of culture,” Melnyk complains. “Schools! It will all be… ”He doesn’t have to say more.
The main glimmer of hope
“If we provide massive aid, the war can end faster,” Kiesewetter said, “because Russia is retreating through sanctions, but also through massive military resistance.”
Concluding the training of Ukrainian troops in NATO’s state-of-the-art weapons systems, the Ambassador said: “We are learning fast. Also via videos on YouTube. We had such experiences at the beginning of the war. The training on self-propelled howitzers has already been completed. “
dinner quote
“Today’s visit was a sign that the Iron Curtain between Russia and Europe had fallen,” said Katja Gloger.
Conclusion
Hair turns, pointless debate trenches, and persistent opposition to reason, but also convincing argumentative attacks with highly effective opinion ammunition: It was a talk show in the “gun license” category.
Foto: ZDF
Foto: ZDF
Foto: ZDF
Foto: ZDF
Foto: ZDF